Rosh Hashanah 6

למנינא אחרינא הוא אמר רב פפא שנת עשרים שנת עשרים לגזירה שוה מה התם לארתחשסתא אף הכא לארתחשסתא

some other system of dating is adopted? - R'Papa replied: The occurrence in each text of the expression 'twentieth year' provides us with a gezerah shawah,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos.');">¹</span> [indicating that] just as in the latter case it means 'o the reign of Artaxerxes', so in the former. But how do you know that the incident of Kislev was prior?

וממאי דמעשה דכסליו קדים דילמא מעשה דניסן קדים

Perhaps the incident of Nisan was prior?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the year might therefore commence with Nisan.');">²</span> - Do not imagine such a thing, since it has been taught: The things that Hanani told Nehemiah in Kislev were related by Nehemiah to the king in Nisan.' The things that Hanani told Nehemiah', as we read, The words of Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah.

לא ס"ד דתניא דברים שאמר חנני לנחמיה בכסליו אמרן נחמיה למלך בניסן

Now it came to pass in the month of Kislev, in the twentieth year, as I was in Shushan the castle, that Hanani, one of my brethren, came out of Judah, he and certain men; and I asked them concerning the Jews that had escaped, that were left of the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem. And they said unto me: The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach; the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Neh., I, 1-3.');">³</span> These things 'were related by Nehemiah to the king in Nisan,' as we read, And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twen tieth year of Artaxerxes the king, when wine was before him, that I took up the wine and gave it unto the king.

דברים שאמר חנני לנחמיה בכסליו שנאמר (נחמיה א, א) דברי נחמיה בן חכליה ויהי בחדש כסליו שנת עשרים ואני הייתי בשושן הבירה ויבא חנני אחד מאחי הוא ואנשים מיהודה ואשאלם על היהודים הפליטה אשר נשארו מן השבי ועל ירושלם ויאמרו לי הנשארים אשר נשארו מן השבי שם במדינה ברעה גדולה ובחרפה וחומת ירושלם מפורצת ושעריה נצתו באש

Now I had not been beforetimes sad in his presence. And the king said unto me, Why is thy countenance sad, seeing thou are not sick? This is nothing else but sorrow of heart.

אמרן נחמיה למלך בניסן שנאמר (נחמיה ב, א) ויהי בחדש ניסן שנת עשרים לארתחשסתא המלך יין לפניו ואשא את היין ואתנה למלך ולא הייתי רע לפניו ויאמר לי המלך מדוע פניך רעים ואתה אינך חולה אין זה כי אם רע לב ואירא הרבה מאד ואומר למלך המלך לעולם יחיה מדוע לא ירעו פני אשר העיר בית קברות אבותי חרבה ושעריה אוכלו באש

Then I was very sore afraid. And I said unto the king, Let the king live for ever; why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste and the gates thereof are consumed with fire? Then the king said to me: For what dost thou make request?

ויאמר לי המלך על מה זה אתה מבקש ואתפלל אל אלהי השמים ואומר למלך אם על המלך טוב ואם ייטב עבדך לפניך אשר תשלחני אל יהודה אל עיר קברות אבותי ואבננה ויאמר לי המלך והשגל יושבת אצלו עד מתי יהיה מהלכך ומתי תשוב וייטב לפני המלך וישלחני ואתנה לו זמן

So I prayed to the God of heaven. And I said unto the king: If it please the king and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldst send me unto Judah, unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it. And the king said unto me, the queen also sitting by him, For how long will thy journey be and when wilt thou return?

מתיב רב יוסף (חגי א, טו) ביום עשרים וארבעה לחדש בששי בשנת שתים לדריוש וכתיב (חגי ב, א) בשביעי (בשנת שתים) בעשרים ואחד לחדש ואם איתא בשביעי בשנת ג' מיבעי ליה

So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Neh. II, 1-6. It is not clear why the last three verses are quoted.');">⁴</span> R'Joseph sought to disprove [the statement that the years of non-Israelitish kings are reckoned from Tishri, as follows]: [It is written], In the four and twentieth day of the month, in the sixth month, in the second year of Darius the king,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hag. I, 15.');">⁵</span> and it is further written, In the seventh month in the second year in the one and twentieth day of the month.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. II, 1. This verse follows immediately on the one just quoted and it is assumed that it refers to the same year as the preceding verse; therefore the words 'in the second year', which appear in the quotation as given in the Talmud in brackets, are not found in this verse (Rashi) .');">⁶</span>

אמר ר' אבהו כורש מלך כשר היה לפיכך מנו לו כמלכי ישראל

Now if it is [as you say], then we should have here 'in the seventh month in the third year'! - R'Abbahu replied: Cyrus was a worthy king,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Hebrew word is kasher, which contains the same consonants as the name Koresh (Cyrus) .');">⁷</span> and therefore they reckoned his years like those of the kings of Israel.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., commenced them with Nisan.');">⁸</span> R'Joseph demurred strongly against this [last notion].

מתקיף לה רב יוסף חדא דא"כ קשו קראי אהדדי דכתיב (עזרא ו, טו) ושיציא ביתא דנא עד יום תלתא לירח אדר די היא שנת שית למלכות דריוש מלכא ותניא באותו זמן לשנה הבאה עלה עזרא מבבל וגלותו עמו וכתיב (עזרא ז, ח) ויבא ירושלם בחדש החמישי היא שנת השביעית למלך ואם איתא שנת השמינית מיבעי ליה

For one thing [he said, if this is so,] then there i contradiction between two biblical texts. For it is written, And the house<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Second Temple.');">⁹</span> was finished on the third day of the month of Adar, which was the sixth year of Darius the king,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ezra, VI, 15.');">¹⁰</span>

ועוד מי דמי התם כורש הכא דריוש תנא הוא כורש הוא דריוש הוא ארתחשסתא כורש שמלך כשר היה ארתחשסתא על שם מלכותו ומה שמו דריוש שמו

and in connection with this it has been taught: 'At that period ,in the year following,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which would be the seventh year of Darius.');">¹¹</span> Ezra went up from Babylon along with his band of exiles'. Now it is written further, And he [Ezra] came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king; and if it is [as you say], it should be 'in the eighth year'?

מ"מ קשיא א"ר יצחק לא קשיא כאן קודם שהחמיץ כאן לאחר שהחמיץ

Further, is there any connection [between your answer and the question]? You speak of Cyrus and the text<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In Haggai.');">¹²</span> speaks of Darius! - It has been taught: 'Cyrus,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Second.');">¹³</span>

מתקיף לה רב כהנא ומי החמיץ והכתיב

Darius, and Artaxerxes<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Mentioned together in Ezra, VI, 14.');">¹⁴</span> were all one. He was called Cyrus because he was a worthy king;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra, p. 8, n. 4.');">¹⁵</span> Artaxerxes after his realm;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [The Persian Artakhshathra means 'by whom empire is perfected'].');">¹⁶</span> while Darius was his own name. All the same, the contradiction still remains?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Between the statements in Haggai and in Ezra.');">¹⁷</span> - There is no contradiction. The one verse<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In Haggai, which reckons his years from Nisan.');">¹⁸</span> speaks of him before he degenerated,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'fermented', a metaphor either from wine turning to vinegar or from flour becoming leaven. The 'evil imagination' is often compared by the Sages to a 'leaven'.');">¹⁹</span> the other after he degenerated. R'Kahana strongly demurred to this [saying], Did he indeed degenerate? Is it not written,